# Initial Dvorak Layout

**URL:** <https://community.keyboard.io/t/initial-dvorak-layout/13>\
**Category:** Model 01 Layouts\
**Created:** [November 1, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://community.keyboard.io/t/initial-dvorak-layout/13 "2016-11-01T00:03:12Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 44

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**Author:** ![andrewg](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/user_avatar/community.keyboard.io/andrewg/32/43_2.png) [@andrewg](https://community.keyboard.io/u/andrewg)\
**Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.keyboard.io/t/initial-dvorak-layout/13/44 "2016-11-07T15:07:12Z")

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The problem with the way the Kinesis Dvorak works is that the keycaps _only_ apply to the internal firmware Dvorak mapping, and which requires you to leave the OS in Qwerty mode. If you leave the Kinesis in Qwerty mode and apply Dvorak in the OS you get a completely different mapping. On the other hand, if you leave the OS in Qwerty mode you cannot remap the kinesis to any language mapping that has keys which don’t exist in Qwerty (i.e. anything other than English). This is a fundamental limitation of firmware remappings.

The problem here is that we are conflating the _physical layout_ of keycodes and the _logical mapping_ of keycodes to glyphs. All that a firmware remapping can do is rearrange the keycodes. It can’t invent new keycodes because the OS won’t be able to interpret them. So if one is a non-English speaker one _must_ be able to use the OS multilingual key mappings that use the standard keycodes. That places strict limitations on the physical layout, because a physical keycode must be usable under all possible mappings.

For example, the key to the right of “P” on Qwerty (or Dvorak) is a symbol key. One might think it harmless to move this elsewhere, but on most non-English keymaps this key is a letter key. You can’t simply move it to some random part of the keyboard; it has to stay to the right of “P”. To take an extreme example, Hungarian uses all five of the keys to the right of “P” and “0” as letters. This is obviously impossible for the model 01, but it does remind us that moving _any_ key to a non-traditional position has a cost.

The following physical layout moves the least number of keys, and by a minimal amount. The only symbol key that changes hand is “”. I’ve shown it with both Qwerty and Dvorak keymaps, but it should be stressed that this is the same firmware layout; only the OS keymap changes. I have applied several other OS keymaps to this layout (French, German, Italian, Scandinavian and Hungarian) and found them reasonable – although I would prefer native speakers to confirm this (Hungarian is admittedly a stretch).

Qwerty: [http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/cc98ebfc32a81b089de852df4e383b48](http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/cc98ebfc32a81b089de852df4e383b48)

 ![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/keyboard/original/1X/f1c10e27eaffc52c05558e30c31b469090d8ff50.png)

Dvorak: [http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2185a92906220de44aff3290c2c92276](http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/2185a92906220de44aff3290c2c92276)

 ![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex031/uploads/keyboard/original/1X/c40bed3fee8af6ac0d7f5829f971458775742917.png)

If the standard Dvorak layout is suboptimal then fine – go ahead and update it. But update it the same way Colemak did, i.e. by using the OS remapper. Firmware is not the place.

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_[View the full topic](https://community.keyboard.io/t/initial-dvorak-layout/13)._