Default qwerty layout and how it relates to alternate layouts

[jesse]

@bjn

@jesse: Back in #71 I gave a TLDR of this thread so far, and I don’t think things have really changed in this thread since. To repeat it:

Sorry I didn’t reply earlier.

@bjn

Ideally Jesse wants the top row, centre keys, palm keys, and thumb arcs to have the same functions between all “official” layouts, as far as is possible/practical. (See posts 42 and 43 above)

Ideally. If there is broad consensus for a change on a given non-QWERTY layout, I’m willing to take that under advisement.

@bjn

Jesse is dead-set on printing left-down-up-right arrows on HJKL on the qwerty layout (I’m all for that because vim, but some others strongly disagree with it), but that notwithstanding I’m attempting to urge him to print them in an inverted-T instead on the right hand for layouts which do not have HJKL in a row in the regular qwerty positions. I have a lot of arguments for this above. Or not print them, but to at least recommend this as a default position for the cursors on such layouts.

It sounds like there is not a lot of consensus on arrow positions for non-QWERTY layouts. I suspect that leaving the arrows off makes more sense than putting them in one position.

@bjn

If the “recommended” positions for the arrows are as I suggest for non-hjkl layouts, the intended default position of the } key clashes, and so I’ve suggested moving the {} one space to the left each, for all layouts including qwerty. Yet to hear back about whether that’s acceptable. What I have in mind here mainly is consistency, which I think for default layouts is good insofar as it’s practical.

I had the brackets shifted one to the left in an earlier prototype and found it to be a miserable experience. Right now, they’re aligned with the home columns. That’s where they’re getting printed on the QWERTY keycaps and positioned in the shipping firmware. If folks don’t want them printed on the other layouts, I could be sold on that.

@bjn

There are strong opinions in both directions about whether arrows should be printed or not, no matter where the default maps in firmware put them.

Yup. And there’s no real way to make everybody happy. Which means that at some point, I’ll have to listen to everyone’s proposals and make some autocratic decision that’s going to upset somebody. I’m not exactly looking forward to that, which is probably part of why I’ve been avoiding weighing in.

@bjn

Could you comment on this, please?

Over in the Dvorak thread things have started getting into where to place the various things on the function layer, but I’m attempting to stop this conversation going too far, since I think it would be best to match whatever the default qwerty function layer ends up being, as far as is practical.

But that means we need to know what that is, if possible.

So it would also be good to hear back any thoughts you have on the suggested changes, or any decisions you’ve made, like positions of brackets and braces, cursors keys, and mouse movement keys. Both in terms of final decisions on qwerty, and in terms of recommendations you have for other layouts.

In short, has the qwerty layout (and its other layers) changed at all, whether as a result of discussions here or otherwise? It would certainly affect and guide the discussion in the Dvorak thread, and I’d imagine for the other layouts too.