French Drovak layout : BÉPO


(Yoann Brosseau) #1

Hi everyone,

The french Drovak layout is called BÉPO. it is managed by a community (bepo.fr).
I work with this community to adapt it to the Keyboardio.
Here is the result :


(Antoine Goutenoir) #2

Thanks for this, this is my favorite layout so far.

Some (hopefully constructive) criticism, in no particular order :

  • Is there no Inser key ? I use it sometimes (Shift+Inser as paste, and also for toggling between caret modes).
  • It feels like < and > and ≤ and ≥ should be on the same keys, for consistency.
  • Same goes for ( and { and [

The more I think about it the more I’ll probably order a keyboard with blank keys and spend time fine-tuning a coders’ layout once I can actually try them in the field.


(Michael Richters) #3

Two things stand out for me with your design:

First, why swap Enter and Backspace? It makes more sense to stick with the other “standard” Keyboardio layouts, unless the change more accurately reflects the alternate layout that we’re approximating (i.e. BÉPO, in this case), but that’s not the case here. It seems more a matter of personal preference.

Second, the F1-12 keys: again, it’s different from the default Keyboardio layout, where those keys match the number keys that they share. In fact the Fn layer doesn’t seem to have any reason to be different from the Keyboardio QWERTY Fn layer.


(Yoann Brosseau) #4

You’re right for the insert key, I forgot it. We can probably add it with Fn+L.
For your other point, I wanted to stay closer to the official version of the layout.
Like it :


(Yoann Brosseau) #5

The reason for swaping Enter and Backspace and also changing F1-12 keys is that the community managing BÉPO works on this layout adapted to the ErgoDox for a long time, and I have base this layout on their comments. I think also that it will easer for ErgoDox owners to buy Keyboardio if they have the same layout.


(Antoine Goutenoir) #6

This is why I said I’ll probably make my own layout instead of using the official BÉPO.

I suspect it’s going to be easier for us to combine ALT-GR and SHIFT than on traditional layouts, which might allow us to rethink the official layout and derive a (in my oh-so opinionated and very much unfounded opinion) more consistent and more easily discoverable layout for our wood butterfly.

I’ll probably try to ditch the fractions too and make a dead key (?) combination or something for all the available fractions : ⅐ ⅑ ⅒ ⅓ ⅔ ⅕ ⅖ ⅗ ⅘ ⅙ ⅚ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞. Especially as they’re not on relevant keys, right now.

I like BÉPO and the intent behind it, but I plan on breaking it down and building it back up for our butterfly. Given the amount of trouble j&k went to make a nice, transparent and hackable tool for us, that’s the least we can do :kissing_heart:


(Antoine Goutenoir) #7

Also, I just read this interesting article, which comforts me in my opinions. Ah, the sweetness of the confirmation bias !


(Yoann Brosseau) #8

You’re right. And I know you’re not alone to do it, there is allready a lot of BÉPO variations for specific purposes.
But, in this case, I want to propose the most generic BÉPO layout.


(Michael Richters) #9

Is this the ErgoDox layout you’re basing it on? If so, it seems to me you could get a lot closer to it than what you’ve done, especially on the Fn layer (which would really require one or two more layers to properly mirror the ErgoDox layout in question).


(Yoann Brosseau) #10

You’re right. If we make a mix with Original Keyboardio layout and ErgoDox for bépo, we obtains something like it.


(Andrew Gallagher) #11

Did you forget Ê? It should be left of À. I’m also wondering why put Ç beside B when left of A is easier to reach?


(Andrew Gallagher) #12

Here’s a BÉPO suggestion which is compatible with the AZERTY layout I posted in the other thread - i.e. if you configure your firmware so that your OS AZERTY works, then your OS BÉPO will also work with the same firmware layout.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e81e364f79c350e710a051073a930ee5


(Yoann Brosseau) #13

The Ê key is not so used and we can have it using the dead ^ + E. I prefer access directly to the Num Key.
Your suggestion about the Ç key is good, so I moved it.
And about your your layout, I prefer to have Back-space and Return in the middle to keep TM2030 practice and the Esc alias the “Panic button” in his only place at the top left.

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8be7ede6216494c172ac08b483a0ed26

PS: I also update the AZERTY Layout to be the same.


(Michael Richters) #14

That’s clearly a personal preference. I’m sure it’ll be shared by others, but if you’re trying to suggest a standard, it makes far more sense to keep the Keyboardio Model 01 practice of having Tab, Enter, and Backspace where they are on the other standard Keyboardio Model 01 layouts, rather than approximating the locations used on some other keyboard.


(Michael Richters) #15

Also, I’d like to point out that it’s not necessary to have an Any key. If you’re going to move it from its standard location, it makes more sense to give it a specific purpose.


(Yoann Brosseau) #16

Ok, here is the last layout version :


http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/8be7ede6216494c172ac08b483a0ed26


(Andrew Gallagher) #17

I’ve added your latest azerty/bepo layout to my configurator. Unfortunately it can’t (yet!) produce a drawing with both the standard and altgr layers printed simultaneously, but it does generate the following:


(Yoann Brosseau) #18

That’s good. Thank you.


(alex.centar) #19

Now that final delivery is approaching, I go back here to try to prepare my configuration in advance, hopefully everything will be ready and set up when the keyboard will physically arrive.

I started a modified BEPO by myself and came across some placing problems, with the un-common layout of the 01. After a bit of reflexion, the layout you provided @Celtic seems more standard and more complete than mine, so, I’ll adopt it as is :slight_smile:

I installed the Arduino IDE and downloaded the standard 01 firmware, but I wondered how to include your work into it ? Have you already done your own firmware with it ?

Alex


(Andrew Gallagher) #20

I have a fork here: https://github.com/andrewgdotcom/Model01-Firmware