More robust keyswitches than matias

I have a model 01 Quiet Click that has been working quite nicely for me the last 2.5 years. Recently (last couple of months) keyswitches started to chatter. I first tried to clean them, but in the end I always had to replace the switches. So I always have to replace a keyswitch every 2-4 weeks, which I find really annoying as it disrupts the whole workday for me.

I would like to replace all the switches with something more robust. I don’t mind cleaning every now and then, but not solder every 2 weeks. Is there keyswitch set known for robustness and longlevity that fits well? I don’t care about RGB.

Thanks,

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Pardon my curiousness but
#how much typing are you used to doing?
#writer-, programmer-, engineering- gaming-, stock’market- etc…style of input?【ツ】
#any particular keys or just random?
#what Model01-Nr. are you running?

@x1r

#how much typing are you used to doing?
I work (also use it for leisure stuff like surfing the web) with it like probably 50-55 hours per week.
#writer-, programmer-, engineering- gaming-, stock’market- etc…style of input?【ツ】
mainly programming
#any particular keys or just random?
I liked the quiet click feel, but I probably get used to other stuff too. I would just really like them to last longer then the ones I currently have.
#what Model01-Nr. are you running?
The back of it says Model 01-Q #003767

Thanks for the interest.

#can you pinpoint a specific area on the keyboard where the switches tend to misfire more often?

Recommend taking a look at this post:

I have had random key chatter pop up too every couple of weeks/months/years on my Model01. Huge reason why I am mainly using the Atreus now.

Instead of replacing the switches though, I went through this post which shows the anatomy of the switches and how to fix them.

I am resigned to popping off the casing and bending the metal to the optimal angle. This seems to be an actual design flaw with the Alps/Matias-style key switches. If not a flaw, they are failing to work as reliably as cheaper keyboard switches.

The upcoming Model100 is probably the easier upgrade path for now. Maybe if we are lucky, we can get some kind of conversion kit or guide to swap them for the (from my experience for now) more reliable CherryMX switches.

I also had a look at the post you linked a while ago, but I just burst the metal while trying to bend it a bit. So I didn’t try that anymore after I broke two switches.

Oh. That metal bit must have been pretty worn out. I just fixed another 3 chattering switches last weekend by bending them about 1-3 degrees. Every single one of them including one that wasn’t chattering I popped off by accident had both metal pieces pressing against each other.

Just shows how robust the firmware is that technically all of the keys I fixed were shorting, and somehow it still picked up the difference between pressing down and not pressing down.

So I am actually fixing on average 1-2 switches every 2 weeks now. I have gotten rather good at it too, which shows how much (grudgingly done) practice I have had. But it gets tiresome so I went looking at some teardowns of the Alps switches the Matias is based on and saw the older models had a separator for the contact points, and though I may be biased, that would seem to be a better spacing mechanism then what’s inside now.

Since the newer Model100 is more or less a complete hardware redesign, it is unlikely that I can just swap out the switches for Cherry-types and will have to defer back to the OP on whether there are more robust Alps switches out there. Or is there news from Matias that they have improved the quality of their switches? I am almost tempted to get a dozen of the Alps clones from AliExpress to try them out.

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I have had key chatter problems since the kickstarter. I have two Model 01s. One is the kickstarter version, the other one was produced about half a year later and is a bit more refined in terms of wood cutting where the keys are. The kickstarter version is way more susceptible to key chatter, which reoccurs every 2 months or so. With the newer keyboard it happens rarely, but it happens.

About one or two years ago I was told there’d be an update to the firmware that would solve the key chatter problem. I updated the firmware half a year ago, it changed nothing.

The go to solution is to squirt a few drops of isopropyl alcohol into the key switches and shake the keyboard around so that it really gets in there or something. That solves the issue for a couple of months.

Replacing the key switches every time it happens seems a fairly radical solution to me. Have you tried using isopropyl alcohol yet?

I love this keyboard a lot despite its key chatter problems. I hope the Model 100 will not have the same problem.

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I used the alcohol solution to try to get it fixed. But after a while, it did nothing, so when I dug into the actual mechanism, that’s when I saw the so-called “simple Alps” that Matias uses for the contact spring was the main culprit for every single keychatter and no presses detected problem found in my keyboard.

This video from Chyrosran shows the mechanism in use in the so-called “complicated Alps” switchplates.

After the past few months of digging into this topic, since it was pretty obvious Matias switches are not rated at 50 million keypresses for my Kickstarter version, I find myself drawn towards wanting to own a blue Alps instead. Because at this point, the test of time itself shows that the older stuff is probably more reliable, and probably does reach its 20 million presses.

I am glad to hear the post Kickstarter Matias switches are more reliable, though I do wonder what specific mechanical improvements they made to it. I am not actually replacing any of the switches yet, as the modularity of the Alps designs does make it easy to understand what’s going on, and fix the problematic contacts directly. I don’t really want to generate e-waste, especially when this is suppose to be an heirloom keyboard.

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There have been a couple updates to Matias switches since the earliest Model 01s.

After we placed our first order but before they first shipped to us, Matias changed their mechanical design to reduce key wobble. This resulted in less play in the switches, but also in additional ‘binding’ when they were pressed off-axis.

Then, after we were able to demonstrate chatter caused by overgreasing, they switched from a wet lubricant to a dry PFTE (teflon) lube.

Then, starting about a year after we delivered MP1, we started to see some signs of switch failure due to metal fatigue. We managed to collect enough evidence that Matias’ manufacturing partner made a design change to reduce the likelihood of that issue. We don’t know for sure if that was a change to the metal stamping tooling, a change to the kind of copper they were buying for the switches, or something else. We’re using these switches for new repairs, but this change happened after the final production run of Model 01s.

We used hot-swappable Kailh switches in the Atreus and plan to use them for the upcoming Model 100.

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Yeah. I love my Atreus’ Kailh switches. Not a single keychatter thus far.

It’s good to hear that Matias has improved their designs. I do wish they are as open about the flaws and the fixes like you all are so we know when things are definitely improving.

Where can one buy these compatible, improved Matias key switches? What do I need to look for?
(Edit: Are these the correct ones? Matias Quiet Click Mechanical Keyswitches)

I have almost given up on trying to get my Model 01 and its keys to work reliably (in all other regards it’s my favourite of the keyboards I have tried) and instead of a ‘heirloom’ keyboard I now have a $300 piece of trash that I have spent hours trying to repair and clean.

It’s bizarre to me that while getting so many things right in a keyboard, the single most important feature in a keyboard, its keys, is not working properly on the Model 01.

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I just placed an order for 10 Outemu clicky Alps switches. They are apparently the assemblers for Matias. Do correct me if I am wrong.

I can’t help it. I really love my Model01 too much to abandon it. :joy:

When I have to replace a particularly bad switch that I no longer want to subtly tune anymore, I will report back on which keys I replaced, and check back when it starts chattering.